Beautiful Tree James Tooley Pdf
The beautiful tree. By James Tooley. Publication date 2009. Topics Tooley, James -- Travel -- Developing countries, Poor. Internet Archive Books. Scanned in China. The beautiful tree. By James Tooley. Publication date 2009. Topics Tooley, James -- Travel -- Developing countries, Poor. Internet Archive Books. Scanned in China.
HIDE READINGS About this week's guest:. About ideas and people mentioned in this podcast episode: Books:., by James Tooley on Amazon.com. Articles:. by James Tooley. Libertarian Alliance, 1993., by Linda Gorman. Concise Encyclopedia of Economics., by Russell S.
Concise Encyclopedia of Economics. Web Pages and Resources:. World Bank. Center for Education Innovations. Review, documentary film on American education. Podcast Episodes, Videos, and Blog Entries:.
Video. December 2013. September 2014.
December 2008. Highlights Time. Anyone who devotes a big chunk of their life to trying to help the world's poorest people gets a lot of respect from me for that whether it is James Tooley or Jeffey Sachs.
Having said that though, I have to point out that this podcast had one of the most alarming ideology to data ratios of any EconTalk podcast ever. Professor Tooley makes Joshua Angrist look positively timid in his certainty about his ability to identify causation in complex systems. This is what he had to say on the topic: ' And then we've controlled, scientifically, we've controlled for all the relevant background variables-family background, socioeconomic-you know, wealth-education of the mother, proxy measures for wealth like do they own a TV or a radio, so on and so forth, all these things. And we've been able to show quite categorically that the children in the private schools outperform those in the government schools, after controlling for all those effects.'
And just that easily the problem of identifying causation is solved and 'all' relevant variables are controlled for. The bad educational systems in the wold's poorest countries are consistently characterized as being caused by the very fact that governments are involved in the public education system. The possibility that these bad educational systems might result from a more general culture of corruption, authoritarianism and extreme inequality is not even considered. India has had a caste system for thousands of years. Do you think that might affect the results of the poorest schools? Many of these other countries have been shattered by ethnic, class and religious hatreds that are centuries old. I wonder if that has anything to do with why some bureaucrats despise some students and their families?
Private schools operate on as little as one dollar per month per child in some cases. Not to worry, that's a feature not a bug. It prevents the harmful effects of government involvement while keeping skin in the game for the parents.
The majority of public school teachers in these countries are represented as spanning the gamut from those who don't show up at all, to those who show up drunk, to those who show up sober and refuse to teach. This was all quite over the top. I agree that parents are the most reliable judges of what's best for their kids. But here's the thing: In every modern democratic country the majority of parents overwhelmingly favor taxpayer funded public schools. And those countries just happen to have gotten the best results so far in human history for education and economic development. If private schools are nearly as pervasive in poor countries as Professor Tooley insists they already are we should already be be seeing dramatic results from that.
Where are those results? He keeps insisting that this 'de facto privatization' has already happened in many places. Greg G, You might want to read his book.
Tooley faced development 'experts' and government officials in the poorest countries in the world who over and over again doubted the existence of private for-profit schools that serve the poor and who don't appear interested at all in the possibility that such schools, when they do exist, might do a decent job and possibly a better job than the public schools. Sure, Tooley overstates the reliability of his studies. I'm glad you noticed. But his claims about the particular effectiveness of private schools are not why his book or his work is important.
What's important (to me anyway) is that thousands of children are finding a way to learn something in a world where the people who claim to care about them are oblivious to what is actually going on. Tooley walked in those slums where most 'experts' never bother to walk. He taught me something I didn't know anything about and apparently, I am not alone. Unfortunately, the situation in the public schools of the poorest countries does not appear to be over the top.
Check out the. I am happy to interview someone on the other side who can credibly defend the public schools in the slums of India or Nigeria, or who has tried to measure the effectiveness of for-profit private schools and found them wanting. In Tooley's book, the main criticism he hears over and over again is that the private schools for the poor are physically disappointing. Maybe he exaggerates. It would be great to talk to someone on EconTalk who thinks the students in private schools are being exploited. Finally, as I hope was clear from the end of the episode, there are many first-rate public schools all over the world. I'm a big fan of financial feedback loops but cultural forces can substitute for profit and loss.
Sometimes they don't. That's what I hoped listeners got out of this episode, along with the idea that competition can help push producers to serve customers and that market forces can create decent and maybe even very good products in contexts where they are unexpected.
I'll concede that that's part of my ideology. Russ, First of all, thanks for the reply. One of the things I love about EconTalk (and yes, about capitalism) is that it has created this possibility for a layman like me enter into a conversation with a famous economist like you. That is an emergent result I could never have predicted a few years ago!
And it has great value to me even though it costs me nothing. I agree with most of what you said in your comment.
I don't doubt that private schools in third world countries are a very underreported story. And I don't doubt they have a very important role to play in making inroads against poverty and ignorance in those countries. And I don't doubt that the anecdotes told in these podcasts are both true and representative of more widespread problems. I am concerned that your comment suggests that those who represent 'the other side' ideologically should want to defend the world's worst schools and argue against the option of private schools for their students. As usual, I am pretty sensitive about being shoehorned into what I see as a false dichotomy when framing the issues discussed here. @GregG But here's the thing: In every modern democratic country the majority of parents overwhelmingly favor taxpayer funded public schools As a parent myself, I totally disagree that it is the 'majority of parents' that are doing the favoring- rather someone else, the State and numerous special interests are.
Instead, parents, like myself, are simply responding to the massive subsidies made by government to their own product, the public schools. Taxpaying parents are going to have to pay for the public schools whether they send their children to the public school or not. The alternative to public schools-private schooling-must be paid in addition to paying for the public schools one would like to reject. The 'majority of parents', particularly taxpayers like myself, do not have any feasible alternative to the public schools as they can not afford both the high taxes (which can amount to $5,000+ per year until the day you die) and private school fees and tuition (for which one is charged only for the years the service is rendered). That would require a very serious financial sacrifice that the 'majority' would be unable or unwilling to make.
I would love to send my kids to private school particularly since I think the public schools are mostly staffed by rank unthinking and uncaring Statists, the level of teaching is low, students are indoctrinated by leftwing ideologues, the public school culture is diseased (see Columbine)and most teachers are more there for the pay and summers off than to actually teach anything. The cost of private (on top of public) schooling is just too prohibitive for most taxpayers.
Non-taxpaying parents and all those who cash in on those massive subsidies, of course, lend considerable political support to those in political power who prefer government controlled schools. Government control of schools is very useful, as the 19th century proponents of compulsory public education were well aware, in the business of controlling and shaping the minds of young impressionable children.
Public education, history amply illustrates, is really great at creating citizens who don't question the State's authority, great at creating compliant taxpayers and soldiers, and great at creating cannon-fodder and sacrificial lambs for the State's next ideological campaign. Imagine what advantage any private company would have if they could charge all consumers whether they purchase their product or not based only on their 'ability to pay'-the more you make the more they take. Well, I don't have to imagine as public schools are, to me, mere businesses that live off government support. Imagine a compulsory Cable TV company with an obvious and brazen political agenda-that's how I see public schools. As one would expect with such a setup, public schools routinely provide poor service, and are often staffed by incompetent undesirables with a noxious political and social agenda.
Worst of all are the clumsy attempts at indoctrination and the vacuous school culture. I never have wondered why there are school shootings- given the nature of the vile, vapid and malicious school culture of most public schools- I only wonder why there aren't more. I make more money than most Americans, and I think very, very poorly of public schools (even, if not particularly, the affluent ones) yet the extremely high cost faced by 'the majority of parents in modern democratic countries' to pursuing alternatives restrains even me. How many of that 'majority' are not also restrained in the same manner? How many would choose a private alternative tailored to their religious/political/social tastes rather than the 'public toilet' leftwing-free-for-all known as the public schools?
I'd be willing to wager that what you see as majority 'favoring' public schools is really just a majority resigned to the fact they have no other affordable choices. Mark, Of course it is true that 'more' people would choose to send their children to private schools if they didn't have to pay taxes. And even more would choose to send their kids to private schools if there were no public schools. In most states, school budgets are put up for a public vote and school board members are chosen by a public vote. If anything like a majority felt the way you do we would see a lot more school budgets being defeated. K-12 education is quite decentralized in this country. Now I realize that doesn't satisfy an anarcho-capitalist like yourself who thinks that government as we know it shouldn't exist on any level.
Surely you are aware that, even among self-described libertarians, an-caps are a small minority. @GregG If anything like a majority felt the way you do we would see a lot more school budgets being defeated. And I disagree. If you define 'felt the way you do' as being resigned to public schools because there are no financially feasible alternatives, I still suspect that a majority feels that way.
Neither you nor I can ever know what the majority thinks, of course, but I find that the outcomes of voting for budgets and school board members as a measure of majority support for public schools suspect. Only the delusional believe that they can actually move policy through the ballot box (and admittedly, the delusional are probably in the majority). Straight Public Choice theory: those with the most to lose (or profit) will almost always win in the democratic process.
School budgets may be 'up for a public vote', but the majority opposition to the budgeting status quo are disorganized, dispassionate, and distracted. Every voter with sense knows that, even if most people agree with them, the politically powerful opposition will always get what they want in the political arena-the fix is always in. The majority are like a heard of cats, easy prey for the well-organized, well-financed defenders of the status-quo. The 'up-up-up' school budget proponents are small in number, but extremely organized, desperately passionate, and extremely focused.
Access to large amounts of tax-payer money has that effect on people. School board members may be chosen by elections, but only a certain type of candidate typically runs (you know: the extremely organized, desperately passionate, and extremely obsessive types with lots of time on their hands, deep pockets, and particularly those who don't mind hanging out with fellow extreme lefties-which kind of rules out most 'normal working people' and pretty much anyone worth voting for.) Nothing much to choose from: freaks, whackos, and zealous defenders of the status quo. Sure, US schools are relatively decentralized compared to other countries. And that's all to the good-things could always be worse.
However, de-centralized as our schools are, somehow or other our public schools tend to be very expensively run by the same types of people in the same slip-shod manner from coast to coast. Things could be a whole lot better.
Who really cares whether or not I think government should exist on any level? Doesn't matter at all-I'm just one person standing alone with no absolutely political power. However, that said, I will contend to my dying breath that the advocates/defenders of government are thereby aggressing against me using violent force, acting against my will and in no way are doing so in my interest. I don't care if they won't believe it or care to admit it. I don't even care if they care.
Even as a minority of one, I will always and everywhere treat them with the contempt they deserve pointing that out anywhere and everywhere I can to who ever will listen. The public schools, to me, are the very symbol of that aggression, and even if I were a minority one about that (which I am not), that wouldn't make it any less true. Interesting guest, and interesting comments, but that's not what caught my ear. Rather: FOUR HUNDRED FIFTY THREE episodes?!! Russ, all I can say is thank you for consistently delivering the most informative, challenging, and intellectually honest hour in any media. I dread the day when you decide to slow your pace.
And while I'm gushing: who does your transcripts? And who decided to publish them? Fantastic resource that makes it almost impossible to hide from what you and the guests actually said. Again, I applaud your diligence, honesty, and courage. I don't always agree with you, but I'm darn glad that you exist.
I type up the Highlights-which you are calling the transcripts-myself, while listening to the episodes. And doing them that way was more or less my idea, one that evolved over time.
Thank you for appreciating them! All the same, Russ deserves all the credit, because he makes them interesting enough for me to listen to every word.-Lauren, Econlib Ed.
I would like to say that the Tooley’s experiences in private schools have mirrored my experiences as well as my family’s experiences with schooling. I had severe dyslexia (probably still due, but I much more functional now). My parents experienced the same disinterest from the public school system, i.e. Put me in slow class that would not help me. My parents moved me to a private. The teacher that helped me was very professional and the helped me in a very scientific method. My father lost his job before I entered High School so I had to go to public school, one of the better ones in the city and in NYS.
The teachers there were more concerned with my feelings than the task at hand, and I would get very frustrated because I felt they were talking down to me so I would get into trouble. I found in the private school that both the teachers and the students were more accountable. If either weren’t willing to do the work, they would no longer be there. I think in the public school I was more likely to have bad teachers, e.g. Read from the textbook from an overhead projector.
My mother on the other hand, worked as a teacher in the inner city. She learned early on not to report problems since if no problems were reported there were no problems. All discipline is done in the class room since if it leaves the class room, paperwork must be created. She spent a lot of time doing paperwork. It was important to do the paperwork correctly even if it wasn’t clear if it was read or if it could help in the class room.
James Tooley
She knew a teacher with a cocaine problem. It was funny because she thought he had a cold since he was always sniffling and rubbing his nose. She did spend a lot of time getting credentials that were not applicable to the classroom, and the administrators would make changes every year that weren’t terribly applicable to the classroom and were sometime harmful. For example, she was not allowed to teach some of the children English until they could read in Spanish from a dual language program, but the children would be really far behind in English so she used to sneak in English. The teachers unions are very powerful. They not only have money, which they collect from teachers involuntarily. They also have manpower, since they can pay the teachers to perform political work such as canvasing and protesting.
There are parents in NYC that travel from the Bronx to Brooklyn to send their children to charter schools. Why can’t they?
The nice thing is the school that I’m zoned from has a new principal because it was a failing school, which people care about because of the charter schools and competition. The prior principal would have all the children go to recess at the same time without enough supervision which lead to bullying. What business in NYC could I send my child to where she would get bullied and they would tell me to suck up a deal, and I could not sue. Oh, I love the daycare my children go to.
We visited several and picked the one that best meets our needs. It’s expensive, but it is the same prices I would pay in property taxes to send my children to public schools. It is what it is. Mark, You may see yourself as representative of a 'disorganized, dispassionate, and distracted' majority but I gotta say those qualities don't really come across in your writing.
Money On That Tree James And The Giant Peach
You seem plenty organized, passionate and focused to me. I was actually on our local School Board for three years. During that time I voted against a teachers contract that I thought was too expensive to the taxpayers. We fired two tenured teachers in three years with the support of the entire board. (Yes that process was too cumbersome and expensive but it is possible to do).
Economics
These board positions did not pay any salary or expenses. All our board members were middle class people with full time jobs except for one guy who was retired. No one profited financially from this volunteer work. Yes it is true that people who are passionate, focused, organized and willing to do the work have much more influence than those are apathetic, disorganized and inclined to merely sit home and express their contempt for it all. That is a good thing. I am surprised anyone thinks it could, or should, work any other way.
Great podcast. The last few have been a little wonky for my non-economics-trained self, but this interview was really enjoyable and thought-provoking. A few questions: 1) Is there any proven 'benefit' to US private schools vs. Public schools? If you control for everything that matters, does my kid somehow end up better off, financially or otherwise, by attending a private school?) Based on the interview with Dr. Angrist, it seems like the answer is probably no, although I don't he addressed this specific question directly.
2) Is there a way to donate directly to these schools? Seems like room for a Donors Choose type arrangement. I love supporting education in the US, but I think my $500 would be better spent on essentials like desks or books for kids in a slum in India than iPads for poor kids in USA.